Interview Franziska Sauerwein

My next "victim" for my series of interviews was Franziska "Franzi" Sauerwein. I first noticed Franzi volunteering information about developer ethics in the Software Craftsmanship Slack channel. As I kept meeting her at interesting conferences and unconferences around Europe, it was just a matter of time until she agreed to answer my interview questions. Franzi is very active on Twitter and posts to her Codurance blog from time to time. Let's see her views on work and values.

Hey, my name is Franziska Sauerwein and I'm a Software Craftswoman.
Puzzles have always amazed me and that's how I got interested in Computer Science. After completing my degree I learned that Software Development is much more about people than about sitting alone at a desk in a room and coding in isolation. I have worked as a software developer and consultant for three years in Germany before moving to London to join Codurance in the summer of 2015. My passions include Test Driven Development, Refactoring, XP techniques and high quality software development. I'm always trying to improve my skills and share knowledge. As an active member of the European Software Craftsmanship community I love to participate in unconferences and organise code retreats, hackathons, coding dojos as well as tech talks. I aim to use my skills and creativity to develop software that is reliable, easy to adapt and doing what it is supposed to do.

You said you like to discuss developer ethics. Why is that so?
As developers, we have a profound influence on our society and people's everyday lives. How we write software and what we write has an impact and with great power comes great responsibility. :)

What other topics are you concerned about?
I am a feminist, which means I believe in equal rights for all genders. I also believe in taking a critical look at my privileges as a white person with cis and class privilege. I try to inform myself on racism, ableism, hate on trans* and queer people as well as other forms of discrimination. I speak out when I witness discrimination and I try to raise awareness on these issues. I support other women, especially when they face discrimination in our industry. In my community work, I actively encourage women to take their space and men to give them their space. There are about a thousand little things that I do, from translating the Community Code of Conduct to German to recommending women to speak at conferences. I use my privileges and my extroverted personality to raise the voice of others.

What do you consider the biggest challenge of our times?
I consider the biggest challenge to show compassion towards and work with other humans in the face of a society that tells us to worry about our own safety and throw others under the bus (or out of our country).

Most people I meet are concerned about meat mass production or pollution. What could we do to engage in the topics? For example, did you take part in public protests, donate money to NGOs or sign petitions?
These are topics I used to be much more interested in a couple of years ago, when I did all the actions mentioned above. Nowadays, my passion and energy are put into issues that are closer to me and the people I care about and where I feel I can make a difference. That being said, I try to live a sustainable life as much as possible (using public transport, avoiding waste, not eating meat) but I do not consider that to be out of the ordinary. I also support people who need financial aid by donating and lending money. However, I believe financial inequality can ultimately only be solved on a political level.

Do you think it is possible to work on "the right things" which are aligned with your values in general?
It definitely is. In fact, I believe that I can be a feminist while I am working. We need people on all levels, people that dedicate their life's work and people who are not primarily activists. And it is important to keep your activism to a level where it is sustainable, taking care of your needs as not to burn out. One can easily get overwhelmed with the number of problems out there. Allowing yourself some slack and amplifying positive changes makes it easier to deal with things.

Especially when you are in a discriminated group, there is a lot of expectation to fight and work against that. However, it should not only be your responsibility, but the responsibility of society as a whole, especially the privileged members. And it can be much harder and more frustrating to speak out and defend your position when you are affected by bad behaviour yourself.

Regarding the choice of working on the right thing: There are already many organisations out there that make conscious choices of what to work on. If you are in a position to choose, go for what you believe in. I believe in raising the bar of software development and building a community of professionals, that's why I chose to work for Codurance.

There are many decisions we take before and during a project. Which choices do you think are relevant?
I think the most likely choices we face as developers are whether to implement dark patterns, impede on people's right to their privacy, slack on security or engage in legal grey areas that ultimately cause harm. Choosing who we work with and who's voice we amplify also makes a difference. Examples like the Apple Watch not working on dark skin or health applications without period trackers show that lack of diversity in the people producing the software has a direct impact on the user. Increasing diversity in the workplace is therefore an important part of making software better for all humans. In my opinion, the largest cause of the lack of diversity in software development is due to everyday harassment, micro aggressions and systematic subtle disadvantages.

How do you think about selecting industry, customer and project based on your values?
I think everyone should choose the industry that interests them most and do what they can to make it better. If you are able to choose customer and project, choose according to whether you can leave them a better place. For example, through increasing transparency and user friendliness or providing users with protection against online harassment. You can also choose to increase profits for someone who invests some of that profit into a cause you believe in.

Do you have problems with any industries?
I do not think that it is that easy to steer clear of problematic companies, since it's not transparent who profits from what. All industries have some problematic part, mostly through exploiting people or benefiting from countries screwing each other over. I do not want to support the weapon's industry, as it profits from wars and conflicts where people get hurt.

Did you ever reject a customer or an actual project, based on your values?
I was not in that position yet.

On the other hand, what would be projects that you would love to work on?
I would like to work on projects that increase diversity and fight discrimination.

Thank you Franziska for sharing your views.

Interview Christian Haas

Christian Haas commented one of my past posts, so it was natural to ask him for an interview as well. If you want to know more about Christian, read his blog or find him on Twitter.

Christian, you are a software developer?
I am a software developer "since always". I felt the call to create software already during my undergraduate years. Since a few years I understand what it means to be really professional. I was blind for a very long time. When I changed project and worked with another team, which applied more practises and patterns, I saw what is possible.

What do you consider your biggest success?
I founded the Coding Dojo Vienna. I started it because there was none and I wanted to have a Coding Dojo. In the beginning we just met in one of our meeting rooms after work. We practised a lot. Later a few people from other companies joined. And now it is self-sustained and will survive on its own. I am very proud of it.

You commented one of my blog posts about diversity. Why does that matter to you?
My attention to diversity was started by Feminist Frequency. The podcasts showed me that there is so much more to feminism than I thought and that I had made mistakes. I was part of most men who do not want to do any harm but do not know better. I excluded or hurt people without knowing and did not want to do that. Like in the Coding Dojo I wanted to improve myself in this area of life as well.

Today feminism is very important to me. With knowing more about the topic I felt comfortable to discuss it with my friends. Now I want to inform others that are similar to me. In the beginning I tried to discuss with random people on the Internet - usually ending in flame wars - but it took too much time. I stopped because I am unable to change random people, nor do I want to do this. I focus on my direct surroundings and try to have impact there.

Diversity on itself is a huge area. I focus on feminism because I do not know much about other areas like racism (*ism) to engage actively. Still, I am happy about others pursuing social justice and - if there is a role model in my vicinity - I am willing to learn more.

What other topics are you concerned about?
There are many things worth complaining nowadays. I leave these fights to the people who know the details. I focus at the things I know enough about to engage actively myself. While I do not have the time and energy to engage actively all the things, I appreciate and support other people engaging these topics. Personal I care for saving the environment and recycling. Also I rather eat vegetables than meat without being a strict vegetarian.

I would like to see more impact on these important topics by my regular work. Do you think that is possible?
1. I see three options to have impact with your work. First you could work directly for a greater goal. For example when I create a web platform for feminism I surely have some impact by influencing society while not fighting at the fore-front.

2. The next, smaller option is more localised. While I do not believe I can make a change when working for a bank, I might make a difference when working on the public user interface of the banking application by making it #genderUX, e.g. by creating gender-inclusive forms. By influencing a single product I still can make people's live better.

3. Finally I can work in my team to raise awareness which might result for not hiring a man next time. This is not related to my job as developer and relies on social interaction. I can always try to influence the people around me.

Please tell a story of something you did because of your values and social responsibility. What was the problem? How did you react?
I have never been hesitant to speak up at my work places, and adding feminist views to my comments fits in naturally. My attitude was never a problem and I am confident that I would find another job if it would not work out. Whenever I see or hear something which I do not like, I speak up while I avoid becoming a hard-liner. My current project does not have any gender related impact so I am working according item three of my list above. As a team member I do have the power to affect hiring decisions.

How do you think about selecting industry, customer and project based on your values and social responsibility?
Even when given the opportunity, I do not want to work for dedicated feminist services, e.g. feminist online magazines, because they do not need my skill in raising internal awareness. Also I do not want to work for companies which are known to be anti-feminist. I do not want to be the leader of a movement, a figurehead. I feel comfortable influencing people around me. Otherwise I do not have any preferences on the selection.

Do you have problems with any industries?
I relate to the “hierarchy of needs”. When I have no other choice I would work for any company. But I am lucky that I consider myself at a higher level of the hierarchy. Given my current position, I would not work for stalking or porn or any project that conflicts my values. Other than that it is difficult for me to think about potential situations without concrete facts.

Did you ever reject a customer or project based on your values?
I never had such a situation where my work conflicted with my values.

On the other hand, what would be companies and projects that you would love to work on?
As I do not engage in feminism at the fore-front I do not look for industries or companies where I can amplify my impact.

Thank you Christian for sharing your views.